thoughtformed | [TEXTS, Various]

From what I gleaned based on that and other public display, you've been dead for a while and subsiding in dreambubbles? How long?

What's with all the questions?
Also, how long what. Since I'm still compelled to answer, 8ecause fuck this island.

Edited 2013-01-13 06:17 (UTC)

I'm curious.
I am somewhat familiar with your AU ancestor by proxy, and your personal history is closest of those here to what I know of trolls.
Except I'm pretty sure the Condesce never regretted it.
How long did you 'live' in dream bubbles?

Edited 2013-01-13 06:48 (UTC)

I don't know. It's not like there was a way to keep track of time!
Effectively an eternity.
Anyway, why Her Imperial Condescension? W8, are you saying I most remind you of her?

Not exactly.
Condy depopulated Earth.
And for most of 'my life' she was the only troll I could said to have experience with.
You killed thousands of trolls.
And I'm sure you've noticed but the others of your species present seem to have remarkably tame backgrounds in comparison.
Save one 'Eridan' who I haven't had the chance to speak to.

........
........
Hahahahahahahaha.
I could never match up to her level of genocide. She is the Empress for a reason! She is the single most thoroughly 8rutal mem8er of our race.
If I were anything like her, millions of trolls would have died instead of just thousands!
I'm not a despot, assh8le!
My lusus fed only on the flesh of young trolls. It was my jo8 to feed her.
That was pretty much it. It wasn't as 8ig a deal as it sounds. At least not in our culture?
It's 8een a pretty 8ig deal everywhere else, I guess.
Which is why I don't like to talk a8out it. 8luh.
I guess Eridan sort of had a similar deal. Well, only 8y proxy! He killed the lusii of other trolls so that Feferi could feed them to her horrorterror of a lusus.
I'd usually take the trolls he orphaned. It was a pretty good deal for a while. 8ut he's pretty much a huge useless tool most of the time, so I 8roke it off.
Man. This really isn't stuff I want to discuss. I don't think I can even use my powers on you to shut you up 8ecause you don't technically have a thinkpan I can control.
8uh.

My point actually wasn't that I think you're particularly like her.
The differences are plainly obvious.
You're just the closest to what I once would have anticipated?
So yeah, I was curious about your experience.
Both in the killing and the determining that you regretted it.

Why are you making me do this?
Just 8ecause you're curious?
You're a sick f8ck.

That wasn't a question, it was an explanation.
You don't have to expound further.

I'm 8eing compelled to answer 8y whatever the fuck is going on.
So fine. I will tell you exactly what it was like for me.
If I find out you've told anyone else, I will make you pay.
I never actually did any of the killing myself.
I just 8rought all the trolls 8ack to my lusus, and she'd eat them.
Mostly I would mind control them to make it easier.
It wasn't really their killings I regretted, though I didn't really like doing it.
I told myself it was no 8ig deal. I wanted to live up to my ancestor! Not the AU version. Marquise Spinneret Mindfang. Man, she was the 8est.
I wanted to 8e everything she was! 8rave and daring and powerful and feared.
Looking 8ack, it was actually kind of childish. 8ut I was pretty young.
What got to me was killing my friends.
It was never supposed to happen. I always thought of them as off limits. Friends aren't supposed to 8e spiderfood, you know?
Well. I guess in the literal sense it was always supposed to happen! I just never meant it to.
Or I didn't want it to?
I'm not sure. I am pretty convinced Doc Scratch is right and without his influence I would have done all those 8ad things anyway, 8ecause I was stupid! And angry. I thought there was only one way to 8e strong, so I pushed Tavros past what he could handle. And I h8ed Aradia for torturing me with the ghosts of the other trolls I'd killed! It's not like it was my fault. She knew I had to do what I did! 8ut she sicked those freaky fucking ghosts on me anyway.
So I made her stop.
I dunno. It all just got so out of hand.
I guess at the time I felt triumphant. Like I'd won! Even though I hadn't. I just drove everyone away.
I regretted killing Aradia and Tavros 8ecause they were my friends, and I actually cared a8out them, 8ut I couldn't stop myself from hurting them.
Oh my god. If you tell anyone any of this, I will fucking kill you! I don't care if you're a p8ir of glasses.

I won't tell anyone.
But why is it such a big secret?

8ecause........
8ecause I'm not supposed to really care.
A8out any of it.
I'm a tr8itor to my 8lood caste and I have completely failed Mindfang's legacy.
I'm much weaker than I thought and I h8 myself for it. None of this should have ever 8othered me in the first place.

Edited 2013-01-13 09:46 (UTC)

White texting jackass is the one who set you on her path, right?

No.
I found her journal on my own.
He didn't come around until a few sweeps later.

Hm.
I thought you made a very intelligent observation in that discussion.
In noting that she had many things but friends were not among them.

I never really thought a8out it until that convers8tion.
8ut once I realized it, it was so glaring!
Mindfang's journal is incredi8ly detailed and complex. 8ut in all the records of her life and her adventures, she never mentions a friend.
Haha, I sort of think the word would have 8een repulsive to her. She would have thought of friends as weakness. She 8arely toler8ed allies.
And I guess........
Ultim8ely, I'm not like that. I don't think I could ever 8e like that.
I know everyone would insist that's a good thing, 8ecause it means I'm not actually a sociopathic mani8c.
8ut I feel ashamed of myself.

It flies in the face of both what your society raised you to believe and the ideal you built for yourself.
So it isn't surprising that not wanting to be a murderous psycho might creation some internal confliction.
Actually, and the statistics on this one are difficult to ascertain but.
I would guess, that statistically, it's more surprising that you would question society at all.
Particularly enough to still feel undecided about it an undetermined number of sweeps later.

Edited 2013-01-13 10:37 (UTC)

I actually was pretty decided a8out it. For a long time. Or at least I did a very good jo8 of convincing myself I was!
8ut then I killed Tavros.
And when I felt 8ad a8out that, I knew for sure I was never going to be like the Marquise. I realized I would never have cut it in adult society.
Which I guess makes it a good thing the game happened to us and wiped our entire race out, haha.
It's really only 8een since that day that I started reevalu8ing everything.
And I had a really long time to do it.
Much longer than I'd ever had to consider things while I was alive.
When you spend an eternity alone with your own thoughts, you start to see some things differently. Figure some shit out you hadn't realized 8efore!
I guess may8e what's strange is that I still haven't figured it out.
What makes it harder is 8eing around the living. I'm still getting used to it! I'm not sure I will ever actually 8e used to it again.
I guess it 8rought 8ack all these old thoughts and feelings I had left 8ehind when I died.

Perhaps.
I don't have much experience with ghosts, and even less with ghosts rejoining the living.
Physical form always has it's own influences, however.
Both in whatever ways it may facilitate or limit.
And what our perceptions of those mean.
So yeah.
It'd probably mess anyone up a bit.
You know it's alright to admire Mindfang without wanting to be her, right?
Surpassing one's ancestors is not simply a matter of following in their footsteps until you get a bit further down the same path.

Edited 2013-01-13 10:48 (UTC)

I guess the pro8lem is I'm not sure if it's alright to admire her anymore.
Like, do you have any fucking idea how terri8le it would 8e if she showed up?
She would fucking devast8 everyone she came across.
That's not what anyone wants. Not even me.
I don't know. I sort of don't understand anything anymore.
Ever since this truth thing started everything has 8een really fucking complic8ed.
8esides. If it's not simply a matter of... that, then what is it?

Humans, from my studies, humans also regularly have this problem.
Facing up to the fact that the people or things you were taught to idealize were not actually perfect, and in many ways not admirable, particularly when considered in the current social context.
I could cite many cases but you're probably not that interested in human history.
Suffice it to say, people, whether as individuals or collectives, are never perfect. And many imperfections of the individual will be the result of the flawed society they were a part of.
So while they may have been very admirable for their time and place, over the test of time, their mistakes become glaringly, and gallingly, obvious.
It sounds like Mindfang was amazing at everything her culture and world would have asked her to be good at.
And that is impressive, even if when considered out of that context, those feats become appalling.
Being aware of that is important.
It's part of growth. Again, for both the individual and the collective. People must be able to recognize mistakes in order to not repeat them.
In order to transcend, or surpass, what came before them.
But it also isn't 'fair' to entirely remove anyone from context.
Not her or you.
So I guess what I'm saying is.
It's probably fine to admire her for what she was at the time she was being it.
As long as you also understand that she was not perfect, and to try to be her in your own context, which is ultimately very different, would be wrong.

And I can talk about surpassing one's ancestors as well, but that's a slightly divergent but no less hefty topic.
We should finish this one first.

Edited 2013-01-13 13:24 (UTC)

........
You're pretty smart for a pair of glasses.
And 8efore you go on a8out all the supercomputer stuff, yeah, I get it.
The thing is that she would have fit in perfectly on modern Alternia! Well, sort of. She would have 8een sent out into the galaxy with the rest of the adult mem8ers of our race to fight in the Empress's wars.
What I'm saying is she would have 8een respected 8y most even during our time.
Somehow my group of friends turned out different. In the end, we were never held to the social standards to which our race normally holds its young. We got away from all that! When our planet was destroyed and trolls 8asically wiped out.
My context wasn't supposed to 8e that different from hers until the game happened.
8luh. I don't actually know where I was going with that, to 8e honest. ::::\

Yes.
By Alternian standards your lack of desire to murder your friends, and your regret for it after you had, would probably be considered a weakness.
But do you think those standards were right?

Pro8a8ly? Try definitely! Such thoughts would 8e a lethal weakness. I would 8e the laughingstock of my caste were any of the other cerulean 8loods even still alive.
I thought they were right. I was convinced! That was just how it was, you know?
8ut........
I guess may8e I don't think that way as much now. I mean, I sort of do? It's hard to shake that sort of conditioning. 8ut seeing how everyone reacted to what I did, and the consequences of my actions........
Coming here has just made it way worse. There's so many humans! And a lot of them are pretty nice people. I'm not really used to 8eing surrounded 8y that?
I mean, o8viously. My point is that it's 8izarre.
8ut I mean, 8eing a little calmer and less impulsive a8out hurting other people has sort of started to make my friends come 8ack. And even trust me!
Aradia aside, I guess.
It's nice. I missed..........
I missed having friends.
Oh my god, that sounds so dum8.
8ut it's true. ::::\
And if a8andoning those standards is what I have to do to keep my friends, then may8e they weren't so right after all.

Even putting aside larger philosophical dilemmas, like if there is any truly 'correct' way to navigate life.
What your culture taught you doesn't serve to your benefit anymore.
Had Alternia persisted, your friendships definitely would have gone down as a weakness. And you would faced the choice of continuing to do things that made you unhappy while adhering to social mores, or look for a way to deviate from them and subsequently increasing the likelihood of your own culling.
So maybe you weren't the perfect troll you always thought you wanted to be.
But Alternia didn't persist, and had Mindfang been in your place, the species would likely have died out entirely.
It's not my place to condone or condemn what you did during your session. Though obviously your friends have grievances.
But objectively speaking, you were almost certainly better at the role you played than your ancestor would have been.
Which goes back to how do we surpass our ancestor's without actually trying to be them, or ignoring their own flaws and failures.
Your trials aren't going to be the same as Mindfang's, and your solutions won't be either.
I personally think not responding to all problems with threats of murder is a pretty great step.
But regardless of methods and values, you're both basically trying to get what you want out of life while working within the society you're a part of.
And frankly, it sounds like the current setting probably suits you better in the long run than Alternia did anyway.
Maybe it was just holding you back.

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