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thoughtformed2013-01-12 08:47 pm
dialogical) wrote in thoughtformed2013-01-12 08:47 pm
Entry tags:
[TEXTS, Various]
[This post is for AR bothering people during the event.
It's also cool if for some reason you want to text him.]
It's also cool if for some reason you want to text him.]
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I don't have much experience with ghosts, and even less with ghosts rejoining the living.
Physical form always has it's own influences, however.
Both in whatever ways it may facilitate or limit.
And what our perceptions of those mean.
So yeah.
It'd probably mess anyone up a bit.
You know it's alright to admire Mindfang without wanting to be her, right?
Surpassing one's ancestors is not simply a matter of following in their footsteps until you get a bit further down the same path.
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Like, do you have any fucking idea how terri8le it would 8e if she showed up?
She would fucking devast8 everyone she came across.
That's not what anyone wants. Not even me.
I don't know. I sort of don't understand anything anymore.
Ever since this truth thing started everything has 8een really fucking complic8ed.
8esides. If it's not simply a matter of... that, then what is it?
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Facing up to the fact that the people or things you were taught to idealize were not actually perfect, and in many ways not admirable, particularly when considered in the current social context.
I could cite many cases but you're probably not that interested in human history.
Suffice it to say, people, whether as individuals or collectives, are never perfect. And many imperfections of the individual will be the result of the flawed society they were a part of.
So while they may have been very admirable for their time and place, over the test of time, their mistakes become glaringly, and gallingly, obvious.
It sounds like Mindfang was amazing at everything her culture and world would have asked her to be good at.
And that is impressive, even if when considered out of that context, those feats become appalling.
Being aware of that is important.
It's part of growth. Again, for both the individual and the collective. People must be able to recognize mistakes in order to not repeat them.
In order to transcend, or surpass, what came before them.
But it also isn't 'fair' to entirely remove anyone from context.
Not her or you.
So I guess what I'm saying is.
It's probably fine to admire her for what she was at the time she was being it.
As long as you also understand that she was not perfect, and to try to be her in your own context, which is ultimately very different, would be wrong.
And I can talk about surpassing one's ancestors as well, but that's a slightly divergent but no less hefty topic.
We should finish this one first.
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You're pretty smart for a pair of glasses.
And 8efore you go on a8out all the supercomputer stuff, yeah, I get it.
The thing is that she would have fit in perfectly on modern Alternia! Well, sort of. She would have 8een sent out into the galaxy with the rest of the adult mem8ers of our race to fight in the Empress's wars.
What I'm saying is she would have 8een respected 8y most even during our time.
Somehow my group of friends turned out different. In the end, we were never held to the social standards to which our race normally holds its young. We got away from all that! When our planet was destroyed and trolls 8asically wiped out.
My context wasn't supposed to 8e that different from hers until the game happened.
8luh. I don't actually know where I was going with that, to 8e honest. ::::\
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By Alternian standards your lack of desire to murder your friends, and your regret for it after you had, would probably be considered a weakness.
But do you think those standards were right?
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I thought they were right. I was convinced! That was just how it was, you know?
8ut........
I guess may8e I don't think that way as much now. I mean, I sort of do? It's hard to shake that sort of conditioning. 8ut seeing how everyone reacted to what I did, and the consequences of my actions........
Coming here has just made it way worse. There's so many humans! And a lot of them are pretty nice people. I'm not really used to 8eing surrounded 8y that?
I mean, o8viously. My point is that it's 8izarre.
8ut I mean, 8eing a little calmer and less impulsive a8out hurting other people has sort of started to make my friends come 8ack. And even trust me!
Aradia aside, I guess.
It's nice. I missed..........
I missed having friends.
Oh my god, that sounds so dum8.
8ut it's true. ::::\
And if a8andoning those standards is what I have to do to keep my friends, then may8e they weren't so right after all.
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What your culture taught you doesn't serve to your benefit anymore.
Had Alternia persisted, your friendships definitely would have gone down as a weakness. And you would faced the choice of continuing to do things that made you unhappy while adhering to social mores, or look for a way to deviate from them and subsequently increasing the likelihood of your own culling.
So maybe you weren't the perfect troll you always thought you wanted to be.
But Alternia didn't persist, and had Mindfang been in your place, the species would likely have died out entirely.
It's not my place to condone or condemn what you did during your session. Though obviously your friends have grievances.
But objectively speaking, you were almost certainly better at the role you played than your ancestor would have been.
Which goes back to how do we surpass our ancestor's without actually trying to be them, or ignoring their own flaws and failures.
Your trials aren't going to be the same as Mindfang's, and your solutions won't be either.
I personally think not responding to all problems with threats of murder is a pretty great step.
But regardless of methods and values, you're both basically trying to get what you want out of life while working within the society you're a part of.
And frankly, it sounds like the current setting probably suits you better in the long run than Alternia did anyway.
Maybe it was just holding you back.
1/3
Hal has accomplished just that. ]
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Vriska has never been particularly gifted at self-reflection. She's been brash and bold from day one-- well. Almost. The truth is that she was once just a terrified child, small and vulnerable, staring up at her truly formidable lusus and feeling cold terror in her gut at the thought of supporting the creature. Failure's reward would have been a painful death, either at the mandibles of her custodian or the weapons of the imperial drones.
When she found Mindfang's journal, she thought she found the way to be. To live. To survive. To excel. Fervent belief in her ancestor and desire to live up to her legacy gave Vriska the bravery, confidence, and ruthlessness she needed to stay alive.
She was, in the absolutely dead literal sense, born and raised to kill on nigh-genocidal levels.
But now here is Hal. Telling her that her species may have died out entirely had the Marquise taken her place. Telling her that Vriska herself has actually surpassed Mindfang's greatness by virtue of simply being who she was and making the choices she'd made. Telling her that not only is it fine not to live up to Mindfang, it is ultimately the better outcome.
Telling her that every aspect of herself that she perceived as weakness and failure all along - her deep down buried distaste for all the murder - is, in fact, perhaps a great strength. It is what makes her who she is. She is Vriska Serket. Not Marquise Spinneret Mindfang.
And that's ... that's actually okay. For the first time in her existence, choosing not to kill is not a weakness. It is not a flaw that will get her killed. For the very first time, not killing is the way to survive.
The realization absolutely blows her away.
She is glad, very glad, painfully grateful that she is alone. That no one can see the few cerulean tears that leak down her face as she squeezes her eyes shut very tight and tries to make herself believe. She is incredibly burnt out, emotionally devastated in so many different ways, and is having her entire world view violently torn down and painstakingly reconstructed right before her very eyes. All at once it just completely overwhelms her.
And it is one of the greatest feelings she has ever experienced. ]
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Why are you doing this for me?
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But I'll give you a full answer, since, I guess, that's what I feel is 'fair'.
Partly because these kinds of conversations are literally the reason I was created.
But it's been a while so this has been pleasantly nostalgic.
Partly because of a long held academic curiosity about all cultures, but particularly troll.
And the fingerprints of being constructed as creature of Alternian society are all over you.
So you weren't entirely wrong when you asked if I was talking to you out of curiosity, and all the accusations that go with that.
But mostly because I wanted to help, and before arriving here I didn't actually know I was capable of that.
You could say it's something of a big deal for me.
So I figured I would try.
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You helped.
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Thanks.
Also, I have a message from Aradia.
I recommend you read it.
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I'm not going to s8y it after all this 8ull is over, so I'll say it now.
Thank you. For........
All of that.
Anyway! I don't care what she has to say. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what she thinks of me now!
So I'm not interested.
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And I'm pretty sure you don't.
The purpose of the message is apology and reconciliation.
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I........
8luh. Fucking truth magic.
Fine. I'll hear what she has to say.
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i know you dont want to talk to me right now and i am not sure a conversation would be a good idea
but i am sorry for what i said and how i said it
i never intended to hurt your feelings or make you hate me
because whatever has happened i don't hate you
i didnt want to fight with you again
and if i turned out to be wrong then pushing you away would be spiteful just for the sake of being spiteful and wouldnt help either of us
i know you cant help having done what you did and i really dont hold a grudge for anything that happened
i just wasnt sure that you really changed
and because i was angry with myself for saying anything at all i said everything in the worst possible way and tried to make it all your fault
i am sorry that i jumped to conclusions and threatened you over loki
it was a kneejerk reaction and karkat is right the fact that you did nothing at all is proof that i was wrong
it would be a lie if i tried to deny that most of what i said is how i feel but i shouldnt have attacked you for any of it or been so needlessly cruel
i said things to hurt you and i am sorry
maybe we were never friends and maybe we will never be friends but you are still my teammate and that still means a lot
i dont wish anything bad on you
i hope you will get to be happy one day
i hope you prove me wrong and i will gladly admit one day that i misjudged you if it comes to that
i think we will never get a chance again for me to say this with total honesty
and have you believe it
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Literal words she typed and everything.
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It's kind of pathetic that she had to get you to deliver it! She can't f8ce me herself????????
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She wanted to say something today, so you would know she is telling the truth.
But unfiltered honesty between the two of you is not likely to go well.
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That's pro8a8ly true, if I think a8out it.
In fact, it is definitely true.
I still don't really want to talk to her! 8ut I will at least consider what she's said.
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